//M or Alpina?

[Stirling]

This is an interesting discussion. I think your comparison with Picasso and Monet is a good one. It seems that in situations like this there is some subjective factor that is driving up prices.

Take the Mercedes 190e 2,5-16v Evolution 2. These change hands for north of $50,000, even in Japan. Why? There are any number of current vehicles on the market that will smoke an Evo 2 in a straight line, have more creature comforts, are far more reliable, and will be considerably less expensive to maintain. Yet I'd bet that nine out of ten guys on this forum would take the Evo 2 over, say, a Nissan 350z, myself included.

And I haven't yet figured out why.

Some sort of psychological shortcoming, imagine!

What i see with the Evo 2 also leads me to believe that once we're through the current debt crisis Alpina prices are headed skyward. They simply didn't make enough of them. Classic Alpina prices are likely to be helped along in North America if BMW continues to import the newer models, raising awareness of the brand with the wider motoring public.

[AlpinaMan]

It all goes to the rarity, and a small group of population in north America that goes after these type of cars such Alpina and welling to spend as much as it cost to just enjoy the ownership, also I agree with you regarding the Hartge and other tuner cars that are great to have.
Hey if you can offer me a price that I can

[RoyW]

Sorry to be so late to the party here... since this site is so new, I frequently forget to come and see what's happening

Anyway, I think we need to remember a few things, certainly as it relates to the early Alpinas like the B7 Turbo. 1) the 'M' cars from BMW didn't really exist in that body style at that time (other than the M535)... so there wasn't really a choice if you wanted the highest (at the time) performance from an e28. 2) Alpina was (and still does) also offering other things beyond engine performance to differentiate their cars from a standard BMW offering, e.g., suspension, brakes, exterior and interior aesthetics, etc.

It is certainly true that one can take just about any model of BMW and with good and proper after-market parts make it as fast, or faster, handle as good or better, brake better, and maybe even look better... and that's fine and I understand why people do it (guilty as charged ) It's also likely that you'd spent less $ than the cost of the "M" or Alpina, and I'm sure it will be an enjoyable car, just know when it comes time to sell your modified car, you clearly will not recover much of your investment, and your car will probably be worth less than the stock model it started out as. BTW, I think personalizing one's car is great... I've done it to all my car, but there is a price to pay along the way and in the end

So, in my case, I purchased my Alpina for many reasons, and in the following order: its rarity, its look, its performance. Likewise with my e28 M5...same reasons. I enjoy both and appreciate their similarities (many) and differences (few). But, I'd prefer to have the real thing over a clone or modded car... even if the that car is faster or performs better than an Alpina or M car. This, for me, is even true as it relates to a car from a different era, i.e., I prefer my e28s to a modern BMW like a 335i... but, probably not a new M3 or M5

Bottom line I'd say is: if you can't find what you'd like because its so rare or you don't want to spend the big $ it might take to get one, then modding a base car is a great way to go.

-RoyW

[Gaalpinaowner]

Mab - good discussion. There simply is little comparison to a E28 M car and a Alpina E28. As you know, I too have both. And both drive great and both are fast for what they are. But Alpina has the rarity, and the exclusiveness. Sure you can build a E28 to be a turbo killer but it will never be a Alpina or M5 ever.The value of alpina is in keeping it as close to stock as possible so alpina nuts go friggin crazy with mods for alpinas and not in a good way.
Seeing that there are only a handful or so of these of these B7turbos in NA they will command High dollars. Believe me there are 3 of us here on this thread that would probably let go of our Alpinas for the right price. But the right price would scare the hell out of you and everyone else...But the price is the price and if you want to play be prepared to pay! These cars will continue to rise in price. But will only have a certain small audience of perspective buyers. These buyers will see the value and will share what us 3 had..."I have to have that damn car" where as most will just shake their head in disbelief. The M5 seems to be holding stagnant in price, but more interesting is how the E30 M3 prices are on the rise. Glad this is the case (yea I have one these to). E28s have always had a rough time with increased pricing... It is a desirability thing I guess.

[Mark in Toronto]

Originally Posted by Gaalpinaowner

The M5 seems to be holding stagnant in price, but more interesting is how the E30 M3 prices are on the rise. Glad this is the case (yea I have one these to). E28s have always had a rough time with increased pricing... It is a desirability thing I guess.

Excellent discussion. I would add to David's comments that e30 prices are indeed on the rise, in part due to the racing heritage of the car. It was promoted by BMW and other private racing teams in Europe and went head to head with the 2.3-16V model of the Mercedes-Benz W201 190E.

While there were fewer e28 M5's produced, both in Europe and NA when compared to the M3, the NA spec e28 M5 does not comand the same prices as the e30 M3 (with the exception of a handful of pristine low km examples). The majority of M5's going for less than 10k require extensive restoration/mechanical refresh due to, for example neglect and the fact they were/are drivers.

However, euro spec e28 M5's is another story altogether:

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/sh...T&pageNumber=1